Can You See The Patterns..?

[wustvn]

Hello to all of you guys,
Is there any of you can help me finding the relationships/patterns of table that I attach below? (file name: puzle.pdf)
(The table consist of 100 rows and 20 columns, contains of numbers 0-9).
Thank's.

EDIT:
Maybe this clues, that I've found so far, can help?
Assume:
# 1-350 as rows, #1-20 as columns.
Number 5 in row 1, column 2 repeated again in row 2, column 2.
Number 6 in row 1, column 3/4 repeated again in row 2, column 4.
Number 8 in row 1, column 6/8 repeated again in row 2, column 5/8.
Number 7 in row 1, column 9 repeated again in row 2, column 11.
Number 3 in row 1, column 11 repeated again in row 2, column 12.
Number 8 in row 1, column 12 repeated again in row 2, column 9.
Number 9 in row 1, column 14/15 repeated again in row 2, column 16.
Number 4 in row 1, column 19/20 repeated again in row 2, column 17.

Number 8 in row 2, column 5/8 repeated again in row 3, column 8.
Number 7 in row 2, column 11 repeated again in row 3, column 11.
Number 4 in row 2, column 17 repeated again in row 3, column 18.
Number 9 in row 2, column 20 repeated again in row 3, column 20.

Number 8 in row 3 column 8 repeated again in row 4, column 6.
Number 0 in row 3, column 10 repeated again in row 4, column 12.
Number 5 in row 3, column 12 repeated again in row 4, column 10.
Number 2 in row 3, column 13 repeated again in row 4, column 13.
Number 6 in row 3, column 17 repeated again in row 4, column 18.
Number 4 in row 3, column 18 repeated again in row 4, column 20.
Number 5 in row 3, column 19 repeated again in row 4, column 19.

Temporary conclusion:
There's at least one number repeated to next row (if the tables is seen by every four columns), but sometimes there's no repeated numbers at all (such as column 1,2,3,4 row 1 to row 2).

[Sophist]

Have you ever thought of color-coding these? It might make it easier to view simple visual patterns, at the very least.

[wustvn]

Hi Sophist, good to see you again...
Yea, but still difficult, isn't it?
Thx for your help.

[Sophist]

Well, from that one sheet, from the visual pattern you can conclude a few things:

1. Each of the numbers appears to be fairly equally distributed; near-equal amounts of each number, 0-9

2. The pattern looks random

Those two conclusions alone can tell you that the pattern, in appearance, is fairly uniform. Somewhat like a chess board:

[Noctivagus]

I'm sure I can see a goldfish!!!

puzzle.jpg (191.45 KiB) Viewed 1455 times

[Sophist]

Actually, Noc, I believe that is the rare Puffy Spindly Spiny Killer Fish found only in a particular quadrant of the Black Sea.

[wustvn]

Well, from that one sheet, from the visual pattern you can conclude a few things:
1. Each of the numbers appears to be fairly equally distributed; near-equal amounts of each number, 0-9
2. The pattern looks random
Those two conclusions alone can tell you that the pattern, in appearance, is fairly uniform. Somewhat like a chess board:

As I said in my Temporary conclusion:
There's at least one number repeated to next row (if the tables is seen by every four columns), but sometimes there's no repeated numbers at all (such as column 1,2,3,4 row 1 to row 2).

This not just happen to the next row, but to the next four columns. How can you randomize so large amount of numbers to be like that...?
So I'm sure this isn't random at all.
Btw, someone in other forums gave me these (but I don't learn it yet):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIC_cipher
http://www.quadibloc.com/crypto/pp1324.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilist_cipher
Thx.

[Sophist]

Well, from that one sheet, from the visual pattern you can conclude a few things:
1. Each of the numbers appears to be fairly equally distributed; near-equal amounts of each number, 0-9
2. The pattern looks random
Those two conclusions alone can tell you that the pattern, in appearance, is fairly uniform. Somewhat like a chess board:

As I said in my Temporary conclusion:
There's at least one number repeated to next row (if the tables is seen by every four columns), but sometimes there's no repeated numbers at all (such as column 1,2,3,4 row 1 to row 2).

This not just happen to the next row, but to the next four columns. How can you randomize so large amount of numbers to be like that...?
So I'm sure this isn't random at all.
Btw, someone in other forums gave me these (but I don't learn it yet):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIC_cipher
http://www.quadibloc.com/crypto/pp1324.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilist_cipher
Thx.

No no, I don't mean it is random-- otherwise, it wouldn't be a pattern and therefore solvable. I just mean it LOOKS random-- the visual appearance looks random. Which can tell you something more about it. Because there are patterns that LOOK like patterns to the eye and then there are patterns that look random. Knowing this might help you find the key.

Like perhaps it is a numeric equation of some sort, that would place numbers "apparently" randomly.

Also, a chess board isn't random and doesn't look it, but it is equally distributed and uniform. Which this also kind of looks to be.

To take a visual, with this somewhat even distribution of numbers and seeming randomness, a good image might be of someone standing in one spot, with a bucketful of chicken feed (each grain is a number and is labeled accordingly), the person turns in a circle on that spot, and with each handful s/he takes out 10 grains; these are labeled 0-9. As they turn on the spot, they throw the feed; say, three handfuls for every full turn. As you look at the feed on the ground, it appears random, but it isn't. There is a predictable pattern as to where and when each handful of 0-9 will fall.

That's what I mean by "appearing random" but also about the uniformity. It almost looks uniform in its randomness, as though someone has purposefully tried to make it look SUPER-random. Sometimes, trying to fake randomness makes something look more random-- as opposed to true randomness where there is no pattern at all. Almost as though this is a stereotype.

[wustvn]

Sophist, I need to read your post several times to understand it (my English isn't too excellent).
But generally I can get the point. As long as you agree this puzzle isn't random, I don't regret to waste time for this.
Someone on this forum http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthrea ... 036&page=2 claimed can solve it, but he was suspicious on me.
Besides I don't know what language they used.
Thx for your analogy, you're really so kind to me...

[Sophist]

Sophist, I need to read your post several times to understand it (my English isn't too excellent).
But generally I can get the point. As long as you agree this puzzle isn't random, I don't regret to waste time for this.
Someone on this forum http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthrea ... 036&page=2 claimed can solve it, but he was suspicious on me.
Besides I don't know what language they used.
Thx for your analogy, you're really so kind to me...

I don't pretend to be a math wiz by the way-- far from it. But I like noticing visual patterns, and the lack of an identifiable pattern (after having color-coded the first page) was what struck me.

Do you notice also though that there is a slight diagonal pattern going upper left to lower right with the 1's, 2's, and 4's, like so:

[Sophist]

Here's the first page with all the Evens blacked out:

[wustvn]

I don't pretend to be a math wiz by the way-- far from it. But I like noticing visual patterns, and the lack of an identifiable pattern (after having color-coded the first page) was what struck me.
Do you notice also though that there is a slight diagonal pattern going upper left to lower right with the 1's, 2's, and 4's, like so:

I think it doesn't need math experts to solve this. It needs logic only. Visualize it can give me different perspectives. If you want to visualize it, the sequences of the columns don't have to be 1,2,3,...20. You can make new sequences, as long as the sequences of the rows change simultaneously. (Can you understand my English? )
Thx.

[Sophist]

So we are more likely looking for simple patterns rather than some sort of more complicated mathematical algorithm? Ah good.

[wustvn]

I think so, but the patterns are hidden so neatly

[Sophist]

Ah well, always like a challenge.