Is it really such a big deal over there?!?

[Charlie]

I see that there seems to be escalating tensions in the US over healthcare, and I have done some looking and I do find the arguments crazy. Again, it looks like a case of mass hysteria and mass brainwashing (those who have brains to wash that is ). I will not say waht I think the US should do, just that I am happy with the system we have here. There are two things in this I have found which are so stupid/crazy that they are brilliant.

The first, which brought my attention to it all was the Stephen Hawking mistake. The one where the obviously anti-national healthcare "Investors Business Daily" editorial remarked, amongst other scaremongering:

“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,”

After a couple of weeks it was eventually pointed out that Hawking was born in England, lived all his life in England, and was treated under the NHS, and nearly 50 years after being given just 2 or 3 years to live (and it is very uncommon for people to survive 10yrs from diagnosis of his condition) he is still alive. When he was asked about all this he commented “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”

Looks like that remark is now dead in the water, and the editorial has mysteriously been changed.



The other thing which I find fascinating is where on earth did the idea that implementing a national funded healthcare service meant that the old, ill and disabled would be killed, eaten or otherwise euthanised. OK, I know the answer to that is the conservative scaremongers, the question is how on earth is there anyone "stupid" enough to actually believe it and take it seriously. This comment on a blog post is one such example (complete with bad spelling - at least he admits in his name that the is a Redneck and proud of it)

Well, if this Obama health care passes one day you will set down to Thanksgiving dinner and the woman of the house will put something in the center of the table. What’s this? you will ask. Then people will say all together, It’s Grandpa!

And if you’re getting on in years and you happen to walk toward a bunch of young people looking kind of hungry, best get out of there while you can.

And don’t ever let them check you in to a hospitle. There’s hearses parked in the basement just waiting for them to give you a little shot.

Anyhow, I ain’t entrusted in paying for anybody’s doctoring but my own and my kin’s. If God had of wanted everybody to get a Dr. and live a long time, you would of been born with a little insurance policy in your hand. It’s a jungle out there and only the people fit to live will survive. If this Obamacare passes we will be getting in the way of God’s Plan. This Sister Souljah sounds like my kind of Dr.–a good Conservative one that knows how things are suppose to work.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

And that is not anywhere near the most extreme one I have seen.... Last time I checked the UK recently had the world's oldest man (113) and the second oldest man in Europe (111) (who became the oldest for a week between the death of the oldest man and himself). The Queen is apparently stopping the long-standing tradition of sending cards/telegrams to people on their 100th birthdays as there are just so many of them now it is becoming devalued. I can't see how that is happening by killing all old people. Actually, our country's biggest problem in care at the moment is that people are starting to live too long on average, and so there are more people alive for longer after retirement which is a drain on the resources, and the government want to raise the retirement age to counteract this.

When I worked I earned c.£1170 per month which after tax became about £970. Within this £200 tax would be my contributions towards the funding of the NHS along with all the other money spent by the government - schools and education (which I have no use for personally now, but I still pay regardless), road and transport, statutory pensions, and so on. Even if you say that half (£100) went to the NHS that is only £1200 per year I was contributing to my health care. That in USD is about $2000 a year. Many of those fortunate to have insurance in the US can pay this every month for basic(ish) cover.

[adhocisadirtyword]

It's becoming a huge deal. One side throws around the word "socialist" which is supposed to make everyone think back to the cold war and get chills, and then the easily swayed start hanging senators in effigy and being generally disruptive.

Sarah Palin has started referring to Obama's "Death Panel," and there's honestly enough people to believe her to populate Alaska. Personally I wish they would all just move somewhere and make their own country. I'm tired of it. And they can take the blue dog democrats with them. They're being contrary just because the health insurance companies give them free stuff.

I, for one, want public health care. And I work for a health insurance company, so I get a good rate right now - around $200 a month. Before this, I worked for a disease management company and paid about $800 a month and my doctor still had to order things in certain ways so the insurance company would pay for it. And my tax rate on the rest of my salary (health insurance is generally pre-tax here) was around 40%. I'm not sure what everybody thinks is so great about our healthcare that it is worth that much money.

[goddessoflubbock]

Charlie - seems you ran into a natural born Texan!

The news here makes a great show of long lines of people who they claim are Canadians waiting to get to have a doctor - not even an appointment yet.

Another favorite is showing how animals get better care than humans.

I know there are longer waits for things - I remember when Benji's mom got sick and had to wait a few weeks for an MRI or CT scan (can't remember which). But I imagine if it is life or death it is different. And doctors here don't use their heads much, mostly it's get this test or that one, when often a little contemplation might bring to light to the problem/resolution.

I have severe neuropathy because for several years I had to make a choice between food for my kids or medicine. Instead of taking 3 pills a day, I rotated taking one pill a day.

Sarah Palin is, I don't even know. But the things she says...

She talks about how the sick and disabled will not have medical care. Anyone who was around last summer probably remembers my plight when I lost my job and insurance. $800 a month JUST for my insulin. Insane. I had no insurance then, and even now I'm just on a local hospital indigent service. I'm a year out from medicare.

My mother is very healthy for 78. Yet last year, even with medicare, she had $5000 in out of pocket expenses.

I welcome a socialized medicine plan. As I understand it, in Canada at least, you get the basic plan but then you can buy into an upgrade if you have the money.

I just need to know I'll be able to get my medications which keep me alive and see a doctor when I'm very ill.

Unfortunately I doubt a plan will happen. At best, an overhaul of medicare and medicaid may happen.

[Charlie]

There was a huge debate on national radio today (primarily about the attack on the NHS). I only heard part of it as I was en route between a job interview at a hospital in the pharmacy (there's a coincidence) and seeing a friend who lives in Nottingham, plus a small segment after I left the friend.

Some interesting points were raised in defence of the NHS and the system we have, including:
Not having to re-mortgage houses in order to finance health
No more staggering fees - one man said that when he had a fall in the US he was charged $540 for a nine mile ambulance trip and about $800 for an MRI.
A woman said that her elderly mother lived with terminal cancer for 5 years, yet the nurses never gave up on her, (and there is no way in the US they would have been able to afford the continued cost without themselves suffering financial ruin)
There were a couple of ex-pat Americans living here who think the system is great (and that the population of the US will love it if it was implemented)

The reason suggested by someone for the huge opposition to it is it would end the health-care system as a huge business and not exist (almost) solely to extract as much money out of people in their time of need. These people are the ringleaders of doom, as they have a vested interest in protecting their millions. They prey on things like sometimes it can take a week or two to get an apptmt with a doctor - yes that is true in some areas, and I have a week's wait to see a specific doctor. However, if you are truely ill they do have appointments held for that day which they can give you, the main bulk of their work with appointments are check ups, continuation of previous treatment (which is more likely to happen if you do not have to pay constantly) and general well-being or non-urgent work, for example my blood tests for gluten. there is no harm in waiting a couple of days for those

I went to the hospital again this morning (about my wrist) - a different one from where my interview would have been later. I was there for about an hour in total, and over the two times I went to the hospitals due to this injury in the last week I have had:
The nurse practitioner assessing my condition x2
A set of 3 x-rays
A splint x2 (the initial neoprene based one I found uncomfortable)
A box of prescription anti-inflammatory tablets

And the total cost of this venture £0.00 (or £1.90 if you include the car park at the Derby Hospital....)

Plus I have been diagnosed now with tendinitis, so told to rest, ice and keep it in the splint.

[goddessoflubbock]

I've had to wait a week to see my primary, and recently waited months to see a pulmonologist while on oxygen with no clear dx.

My biggest problem is that while there are plans out there to buy into, I'd be paying for nothing as most do not cover pre-existing conditions for at least 12-24 months, but will still upcharge my rate for having those conditions!!

That's why I've always loved being on an HMO. No pre-existing clause, you always know what your out-of-pocket will be, and no claim forms, etc to deal with.

When we lived back home and DH was working at the courthouse we had amazing insurance - an HMO.

GP appointments were $2.00, specialists were free, and rx was free for generic, $3.00 each otherwise. But he was union.

Those kinds of plans don't even exist anymore.

I've seen lately people comparing Obama to Hitler because of this health plan issue. These are people who clearly still have their jobs, have insurance (but probably no chronic illnesses) and too much time on their hands.

I am all for nationalized health care.

[Sophist]

I definitely think NHS makes sense-- not even "the most sense", it just makes sense. Not saying that UK NHS is run perfectly, there's surely loads of room for improvements. But that doesn't mean to chuck it out the window; that means those improvements should be made to an already winning system.

The US is just insane. I don't suppose there's any other way of putting it.

[goddessoflubbock]

Texas is 49th as far as having the most uninsured people. If it weren't for New Mexico weKd be at the bottom.

Part of the problem is how medicaid is handled. Medicaid is a federally funded (in large part) program, but the state you live in affects your eligibility. In Texas, a family of four can make no more than $300 a month for an adult to get medicaid. $300 a month total income and they count all sources. Some states don't count SS money.

In Pennsylvania, I would have qualified for medicaid while I was working! At my present "income", I would qualify for medicaid, a home health aid, and about $600 a month in food stamps.

Something must be done. People only get sicker when they don't take routine care of themselves.

It's very frustrating to live in a country that bills itself so highly to the world, and to know from the inside that the infrastructure just isn't there.

[Sophist]

I seem to recall that in Missouri a few years back, the cap for receiving Medicaid was over $1000.

[ruth]

In December of 2007 my daughter took me to the ER after two days of unrelenting and extreme nausea. I thought it was my gall bladder as it followed Thanksgiving and I was still eating the leftovers (turkey and gravy)They kept me overnight and did a barrage of tests the following day, all fortunately came out negative, and then released me with the diagnosis of GERD and a prescription for Nexium, I think it was. I told the doctor who prescribed it that I wouldn't be able to afford it as I don't have the prescription coverage of Medicare.He told me to take over the counter prilosec. Anyway, the cost or total charges for all of this was an astounding $16,088.00.

1 day in Telemetry: 5,025.00
Pharmacy: 652.00
X-ray: 1,464.00
Cardiology: 5,970.00
Laboratory: 2,211.00
Emergency Room: 766.00

Medicare paid all but $992.00 and the hospital worked out a payment plan for me to pay the balance at 44.00 a month. The pharmacy part I just don't understand. I only had 2 anti-nausea pills and nothing more, not even a tylenol tablet.

Now I realize that what Medicare paid was no where near the 16,088 figure, but what I can't understand is how they expect people who don't have Medicare or other insurance coverage to cough up 16,088 for one day in the hospital and then insult them, let me change insult to a more accurate word, rape them once again by charging them 652.00 for two pills. There's no way to calculate how many people who need hospital or ER care stay home, suffer, get worse, die ..... because they know a
hospital stay or ER visit would destroy what little financial security they have or leave them homeless. Shouldn't that astronomical cost be reduced dramatically for low income patients who earn over the required amount to qualify for medical assistance? It all makes me crazy. Fees have to be regulated and equal for all patients no matter their financial situation. The cost of 1 day in the hospital or one ER visit should be the same for everyone, whether you are a millionaire or a pauper.

[goddessoflubbock]

In some states (not TX) you can receive medicaid assistance for a single catastrophic bill. They deduct the bill from your expected income for the year, and if you meet an arbitrary percentage medicaid will pay the bill.

The problem is that these things vary so much state to state. We're all Americans, why the discrepancy.

And of course my other pet peeve, all the illegals clogging up our ERs who get free medical care.

Stopping before I hit full-fledged rant....

[Sophist]

How many illegal immigrants actually do use ER services though? I would imagine more in the border states of course.

I don't know, I tend to think illegal immigrants get blamed for a whole lot of stuff when they only add a very small sliver to the overall pie.

[adhocisadirtyword]

The unfortunate thing is that they can't use any preventative medicine - they have no access to doctors otherwise, so ERs are their only recourse. I don't blame them for it -- are they supposed to sit at home and die?

There are some non-profit clinics in California trying to help, but there's only so much they can do.

I don't think illegal immigrants have a huge impact overall though I don't know the numbers, but I do know the problem is much larger in border states - especially California and Texas.

[goddessoflubbock]

Being in Texas, the illegal problem here is a big one.

Most are not there with possibly fatal ailments like heart attacks, etc. Mostly it's for what would typically be routine care.

There are clinics, "doc in the box" places, but they don't go there because they require you pay something and make arrangements for the rest if you can't pay upfront. The hospital sends a bill 3 weeks later. To usually bogus addresses.

And I know it's unpopular, but they are illegal. They should be at home. Americans cross the border all the time because drugs are so cheap (I mean pharma, not recreational!) In Mexico. Is the grass just always greener on the other side?

[Belfast]

The other thing which I find fascinating is where on earth did the idea that implementing a national funded healthcare service meant that the old, ill and disabled would be killed, eaten or otherwise euthanised.

According to MSNBC & The New York Times, the "death panels" concept originated with former N.Y. State Lieutenant Governor Betsy McCaughey.

There are too many issues for me to address, so I'll try to briefly say my piece, sum up my demographic situation & stance. If it weren't for these "safety nets", I'd have no health care at all (as I'm lacking income & unable to work). Am liberal & "pro-hospice".

I get Medicaid (which offers $400/year for dentistry), and when I've been slightly better off financially, the state's "poor people" insurance (which does not cover dentistry).
Negative side: there aren't enough providers who are adequately reimbursed by the programs (esp. Medicaid), so I haven't been able to get a primary/general doctor (person from whom I'd be required to get referral in order to see a specialist of any sort).
On the positive side, I need no referral-and the appts. are free-for both my weekly mental health counseling appts. at clinic & my occasional gynecology appts.

My personal opinion of those behaving badly in the media & at the now notorious "town hall meetings" (or the particular subset of persons therein) is that their uncivil rhetoric, escalating hostility, and verbal thuggery are hypocritical, deceptive, deleterious and destructive.

[goddessoflubbock]

The Obama administration has done some serious back-pedaling today, in my eyes bowing to the rhetoric of the ill-informed.

Those in the Senate and Congress have little if any idea what it is like to live in the America most of us know - the paycheck to paycheck world where the devil is snapping at your heels every day.

The only reason I didn't lose my house for medical care last year was because I didn't buy the house I could afford - I bought $20,000 cheaper in a house that needed some cosmetic upgrades.

Now they are calling for local insurance coops, which are still run by private insurers. The prices may be lower, but it still doesn't help those of us with pre-existing conditions.

I can only hope medicare is still afloat when I become eligible next August. That's $100 a month, plus about another $200 for a wraparound policy.

Aggravating.