Plastic surgery for children with Down's.

[Sophist]

In part it's incredibly sad (that naivity and vulnerability and the fact that she might not understand what love is), but mostly I think that it's incredibly beautiful (that she's that loving and open and that maybe she does genuinely love everyone because she's more open to it than 'normal' people).

Yes, I agree, it is both incredibly sad and incredibly beautiful, as you say.

Recently I met two former co-workers ( ran into them not a planned meeting) in a restaurant. I noticed them and went to their table to say hello. I was fond of each, but didn't realize until that chance meeting that they were sister and brother. I gave the woman a hug, as I knew her better than I did her brother and I had always admired and been fond of her, but knew little or next to nothing of her personal life. (Actually these two were elderly volunteers at the hospital where I worked. They still thought of me as a "kid" because of their advanced age.) There was a third person at the table with them, a female, hard to say her age, probably late thirties, she had the features that usually accompany Down's Syndrome. I was so touched when this younger woman waited for a lull in our conversation and introduced herself to me by saying very proudly and with a charming smile, "I'm her daughter." I wondered why my co-worker failed to make that known to me and take advantage of the opportunity to introduce me to her daughter. I don't know for sure, but I think it was deliberate, or at least an indication that she was not in the habit of giving her daughter the same respect as she would give "normal" people. She thought it was important enough to tell me that the man across the table from her was her brother, but not that the young woman sitting next to him was her daughter. I thought, " well good for you, after all you are somebody too, as important as anyone else here, and you are proving this by speaking up and introducing yourself to me." I wonder how often this has happened to that young woman and others like her. The thing that makes this so sad and beautiful at the same time is that the young woman was (probably) unaware that her mother's failure to introduce her was a kind of dismissal or denial of her existence and had probably happened a hundred times before, yet her spirit was undaunted because of her child-like innocence. This experience touched me and is one that I will most likely not forget.

That is very sad.

[AKAConlang]

The girl was clearly engaged enough to understand she had no been introduced, I don't see what basis we have for assuming she could not understand that it was a form of dismissal. How many of us appreciate the automatic assumption that we are incapable of something, even when we ARE in fact incapable of it?

I don't appreciate being considered "good at math" any more or less than I like the "unable to understand metaphore." That is why when I hear someone talk about an autistic whom they have just met, who has not demonstrated their unique skill set, and they use the word "probably" what I want to know is "What makes it so probable?" Same for people with down syndrome.

This is why the eternal childhood thing rankles me so much, because so many people associate childhood with being incapable.

[AKAConlang]

Quoting Kaylis:

*shrug* I don't really know much about DS, and the original link is broken, so there's my tidbits on the subject.

I don't really know much about DS either, next to nothing in fact. And I'm certainly not a super-genius. But I think when the world and/or your mother treat you like sh** and you continue to love the world and/or your mother in spite of such treatment, without becoming bitter, angry, hateful or withdrawn, you are demonstrating unconditional love, and that's a pretty rare and lofty kind of love that very few of us achieve. I have really only observed it in children, although I'm sure it can exist in adults if they are willing to work on it. If it (unconditional love) was a common attribute and easy to attain it would not have been the subject of so many philosophers and religious leaders. I don't see the term child-like as being offensive in the least, as the leader of my religion urges us to become as little children if we want to see the kingdom of heaven.

I am very sorry AKAConlang, if my post has offended you.

For the record, you didn't offend me, and I was not angry, I wanted to clear up some misperceptions about people with down syndrome and raise awareness. You already get it a lot better than most people do

[SomethingElse]

The girl was clearly engaged enough to understand she had no been introduced, I don't see what basis we have for assuming she could not understand that it was a form of dismissal. How many of us appreciate the automatic assumption that we are incapable of something, even when we ARE in fact incapable of it?

I wouldn't say 'clearly', as I don't see why anyone would assume she was being dismissed. As I said in my last post - not all people introduce others (social etiquette isn't always practised properly). Surely it's just as offensive to assume that the mother was embarrassed by her daughter?

As preferable as it might be to think of this girl as a bit of a rebel, fighting for her rights as a human being in her own way, I just think it's perfectly likely that she wasn't being dismissed or wasn't seeing it that way. So whilst I can't see how Ruth would know it was dismissal, I do think that Ruth's judgement of how the girl introduced herself (or rather, re-introduced her mother, really?) was saying it how she saw it. Not assuming that as a person with DS the girl must be less aware than the rest of us, but just saying that it literally appeared that the girl was proudly saying, "That's my mum."

We have no basis for assuming the woman was actually being dismissive, and no basis for assuming the girl was aware of it, as well as unaware (and we is all of us, except for Ruth in the latter case who probably does have some idea of how it was said). Of course lots of people are neurotic enough to find slights in everything, so perhaps the girl was rebelling against nothing, if that's the case.